Nathan Eitelberg 06 September at 23:20
Mate... I agreed with you in that fight, and I wish you wouldn't back down.
I don't know why you are afraid to "take over" a status. I removed people who can't behave when I talk about serious issues, and I think that whoever is left would not get offended by you, or by Omry.
I actually enjoyed reading intelligent debate, even if it came from one side on a certain subject... I don't know Omry irl, but I have common friends with him, and because we agreed on some things I added him. I wish I'd have been here to back you up on the Europe vs the world argument, but work fucks me....
Regarding BS on global empathy.. I apoligise. I just don't know how to word my opinion exactly. I do think that Europe shouldn't give a fuck, but that's because there is no real suffering here..... Seriously. Come visit Jerusalem and I will take you around and with your European passport you can go visit inside of "Palestine" if you feel brave enough.
That pisses me off that Europeans feel holier than thou to condemn Israel on something they have NO clue about, meanwhile why not focus all that self-righteous anger to people who REALLY NEED help? Fuck, even in South Africa I saw starvation all around me....
In Israel, the beggars piss me off. No Jew starves here, but no Arab either. They have work, they drive BMW's, and they have access to unemployment benefits if they don't, plus they don't pay tax.... What the fuck do they need money for? To buy AK47's?
So you see my problem... I should have worded it that empathy should be given where it is deserved, and not just where the media says it should go.
Add me on skype if you have me: Nathan.Eitelberg
I'd love to talk sometimes. :)
Have a good night!
Pedro Campos 10 September at 19:43
Hey man,
i backed down out of experience. There is nothing that will deter that guy from thinking he's more intelligent and more informed than others, you can tell by the assertiveness of his writing that he's one of those guys that has no doubts over his opinions. For me that isn't something i want when i put some effort into a discussion. I don't wanna be right or wrong, i want for everyone to seek the truth and if possible by the end of the conversation be closer to it.
I come home from work to relax, not to get pissed at a random guy i will never meet. Better to drop it with a bit of sarcasm. For him, he won, for me i made fun, for the others it's irrelevant, except for you, of course.
I was hoping you would agree with me, having lived in Africa. What i said wasn't from seeing shit on history books or CNN but by talking with people who have lived and still live in Africa. I wish the problem would have been only from colonialism, because in that case, it would be a matter of time before things got better.
Unfortunately it's not, it's deeply anthropological and sociological. The concept of society, or civilization, in Africa, is very different, from what i can understand. That in itself cannot be criticized in any way, because no one can be sure of what the fuck is the right way to structure society. All the values we got came directly from theological morals, a matrix of jewish/christian commandments that still, to this day, dictate the pillars of our constitutions and sociological principles.
The fact that, in practice, the African way leads to an extremely unbalanced power scale between social stratus is first of all inhumane (there is no compassion for the next one - i believe we are inherently kind to other beings and corrupt this natural quality through personal traumas leading to indiscriminate anger and through diverting factors like money, sense of status quo and social popularity) and secondly immoral (morals, as i have mentioned, are an artificial creation of man based on a theological event and therefore, if you are non religious like i am, you have no rational basis to acknowledge them - but i practice them, i'm not a fool)
And that is mainly the problem and why everyone should worry.
I know that you didn't mean the thing about the empathy, i know you already for a few years and fortunately have had the opportunity to understand that you are a full human and not one of those transhuman cynical bastards that are popping out everywhere now. Those persons who are clinically cynics, besides being sad puppets of their own pessimism have this intrinsic belief that everyone else sees the world from their perspective, and if not, it's because they are still stuck to some sort of arcane naivety. There is no admission for the human condition being still valid in our days of hyper informed smart asses.
Really interesting stuff about the benefits palestines have inside Israel. Man, no one in Europe in their right mind thinks that people are suffering there like they suffer in Sudan or Somalia. The idea we have of the whole area is that it's a geopolitically volatile area, with profoundly deep roots for the current conflict. We besides that suspect that there is some day to day instability at the border, 99% of it at a cosmetic/aesthetic level (verbal abuse of some kind).
No one thinks people it's an disaster area of apocalyptical proportions, but we know things aren't good and that at any moment it could turn into one. That is what worries Europeans. And for Europeans that like to keep up to date in geopolitical matters, it's a domino trigger waiting to be pulled and precipitate the world into WW3.
What is worrying personally is that people don't really give a fuck anymore. Contrary to what you and Omry were implying, europeans NEVER talk about the israelo-palestine conflict, AT ALL. Unless you are an activist of some sort (probably how the media paints european over there) you just don't care anymore, which is sad. You don't care about the gaza strip, you don't care about darfur, tibet, mogadishu, you just don't fucking care. You care much more on whether Amy is going to win X-Factor tonight than if Hillary's meeting with Benjamin will, in a unprecedented fashion, yield any results for the conflict.
I think probably europeans are not well depicted by the media over there.
Israeli clubs play for football european competitions every year, Champions league, UEFA cup etc, this is a sign of at least some sort of political and social stability within a country, otherwise the fucking pedants at UEFA wouldn't even allow games to take place there. That, even if unconsciously, makes people realize Israel is not a war zone.
With those few people i have talked to about the settlement problems, no one has a clue on whose fault is it and what should be done. I repeat: only far left wing sensationalistic che guevera cannabis cuba clueless infant minds believe Israel to carry the whole onus of fault.
I personally think the Israel state is too right-wing, too isolationist, too bilateral (with the US) and too proud but if i get a map and look at the countries around Israel, if i take a history book and study the history of the area, i can't see how thing could be in any other way. There is no space for a fantasy hippie ultra liberal state when your neighbors openly admit they strive for your unconditional annihiliation.
There are different contexts in the world stage, and you have to play with the cards you have. If you are, let's say, Greenland, you can't incline your whole economy towards agriculture if you don't have arable land, you must invest in other areas in order to be able to afford importing food. Same shit different story as Israel.
Following this thought, it seems to me that Europeans are generally seen as liberal pussies. That is probably in all honesty a misconception, but if it were to be true, it would make sense. We've gone through our fair share of wars and probably no continent has been more devastated and reconstructed as many times as Europe, but now things are ok, and people start believing in other values other than strength and national identity, because there is no enemy, no common national goal. People develop primordialy humane senses and ideologies. This isn't better or worse than anything else in the world, naturally it brings much less problems than to be agressive towards others, but ultimately it just comes from the context.
take care mate
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